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Non RFT or RFT

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Thos View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 12:21pm
Hi
I have a 120d F20 auto.

I am planning to change my alloys from 16" BMW style 378 to 17" BMW style 382 which looking at the BMW site come with Dunlop RFT's. Everyone I speak to is in the process of changing their run flats to non run flats. As I have always driven on non run flats I'm struggling to decide which to go for stay with non run flats and carry a space saver or go onto non run flats. Cost is not a problem and I want the best tyre.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thos
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thepits View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thepits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 5:10pm

IMHO - non-RFT's - but as this topic will no doubt open a can of worms, I'd wait for the other comments LOL

If you decide on non-RFT's, then the next question will be which ones, another discussion open to numerous suggestions - Goodyear for me Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davebrindlee36m3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2014 at 10:37pm
I just cant understand why BMW cannot just put a spare in the boot, like the good old days LOL. I have not heard a good word said about run flats. And it surely cant just be a money saving ploy, or is it ? Or do BMW presume we are all to lazy to change a wheel at the side of the road ? Plus most insurance companys provide roadside assistance these days. Just in case you need help to change a wheel. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thepits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 6:04pm

Originally posted by davebrindlee36m3 davebrindlee36m3 wrote:

I just cant understand why BMW cannot just put a spare in the boot, like the good old days LOL. I have not heard a good word said about run flats. And it surely cant just be a money saving ploy, or is it ? Or do BMW presume we are all to lazy to change a wheel at the side of the road ? Plus most insurance companys provide roadside assistance these days. Just in case you need help to change a wheel. Wink

It's a weight saving ploy Angry, and in my Z4 WTF would you put one?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMcWhir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2015 at 6:00pm
Run flats are evolving..

Michelin have been off the market for a while developing a new generation of runflats which we are about half way through launching. The main advantage is a new generation of rubber compound for the support on the inner liner (what keeps your tyre up if you get a puncture)

They are thinner, lighter, and less stiff. Leading to them giving the same performance on labelling criteria as a non run flat tyre in wet grip and rolling resistance.

We have a few approvals already with BMW and mercedes, as well as doing fitments for cars that are on the market already for a few years.
We launched them last year, and at the product launch we held at MIRA using two 320d's I can recommend them for reduced noise and significantly better comfort (we use a special NVH (noise,vibration and harshness circuit), so let me know if you want any more information


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safe1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 6:19pm
I remember some info on these Michelins online a few months ago.I would think that it would depend on how dependable the repair would be Guaranteed, and cost of purchased Tyre if changing a set, from R/F.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thepits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 6:34pm

Originally posted by JMcWhir JMcWhir wrote:

Run flats are evolving..
etc etc .... as this is obviously a publicity puff LOL

Lets be honest. Manufactures need to meet EU figures. One way to achieve that is to lighten the car by removing a spare wheel - even a "space-saver" so RFT's are an obvious solution.  Angry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMcWhir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by thepits thepits wrote:

Originally posted by JMcWhir JMcWhir wrote:

Run flats are evolving..
etc etc .... as this is obviously a publicity puff LOL

Lets be honest. Manufactures need to meet EU figures. One way to achieve that is to lighten the car by removing a spare wheel - even a "space-saver" so RFT's are an obvious solution.  Angry



Why do I botherLOL.. that's why I'm the Technical Manager (not big chief publicity puff..)

So yes, like every one else in the world, lets just not change anything ever..

Whether you like run flats or not. They aren't what they were. Simple

I wasn't claiming they were the best tyre in the world.. just saying the differences between standard tyres and our new run flats are significantly less than they were.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ruggedscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2015 at 9:51pm
run flats ? cost me £800 in two alloys - yes the 296 wheel may be weak but the run flats wrecked em. Ill stick to normal tyres and a spare if possible.... if no spare Ill take my chances with the recovery crew. RFT spiteful indeed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2015 at 7:09pm
Just changed the tyres on my 130 m sport to non runflats, the difference is amazing.
Gone for Goodyear Eagle F1 asymmetrics all round.
The ride with the m sport suspension combined with the runflats was horrendous.
I would not thought it possible by just changing the tyres such a difference could be made.
I can put the pump and gunge from my Alpina in the 130, just in case I have a puncture. 
Just like driving a new car Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 7:47pm
Just fitted snow tires on my 730D which replace the run flats. Biggest problem - where in the relatively large boot will the spare fit? I can now fit two small bags in the boot and a small case, where before I could fit three cases and still have room to spare. However, today I had to move the run flats in my garage. I can just about lift one. Must weigh over 100kg. Compare that with the tire from my 728i, and I can pick that up with one hand.
Can anyone explain the difference between having a heavy wheel on the axle and carrying one in the boot. Un-sprung weight springs to mind. 730Ds don't have space saver wheels according to BMW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2222robert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2015 at 6:54pm
I've had 6 punctures and 2 alloys using run flats on my Z4 on normal British roads in just 2 years. The alloys can't be repaired and the tyres are a write off. Total cost 2.3k the car is fine but BMW still deny any responsibly for a poor design.For this reason I would never buy another BMW let alone any car fitted with these tyres.Thanks for nothing BMW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul M3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 11:48am
Non RFT for me as my BMW does have a spare  (E36 M3 EVO Convertible), progress isn't always a good thing Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote powco2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2016 at 2:01pm
After I bought my 2013 F21 (with Pirelli Cinturato runflats 205/55 -16 W), I changed quickly to Dunlop Blue sport non runflat. I was surprised and dissapointed as NO DIFFERENCE to ride quality or road noise. My BMW has much firmer ride than my outgoing VW Golf.

Ran these for 2 years then bought Goodyear Efficient Grip Runflats. Same comfort, road noise and performance. But I have 16 inch wheels, maybe different results on 18 or 19 inch wheels with much lower profile tyres.

Modern runflat tyres seem OK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 4:57pm
I have 7 series E65, firstly Alpina does not fit run flats. Secondly, I am unaware run flats are available for my standard 21 inch wheels?

I have a proper spare wheel from Alpina 18inch and the tyre is a different configuration to match the height of the other wheels and tyre. It is not a space saver either, so can drive relatively fast on it, within the legal limits of course.

However I have had 2 x E60 with run flats but was driving 50K a year and believe you me I had no intention of wheel changing in winter down so B road.

Edited by Norrie - 16 Feb 2017 at 4:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by 2222robert 2222robert wrote:

I've had 6 punctures and 2 alloys using run flats on my Z4 on normal British roads in just 2 years. The alloys can't be repaired and the tyres are a write off. Total cost 2.3k the car is fine but BMW still deny any responsibly for a poor design.For this reason I would never buy another BMW let alone any car fitted with these tyres.Thanks for nothing BMW.


I have done 57k miles on my (two sets of) run flats since July 2014. One flat and that was replaced after driving on it for about 8 miles. The rim was undamaged, so I suspect that when you had a flat or two you were driving in a sporty manner, or you drove the car at two high a speed when flat.
Possibly in a Z4 your screen does not light up like Blackpool illuminations when you have a pressure drop like the one on my 730d does, so you may not have realised the tyres were flat?

They are noisy and make the ride terrible compared to ordinary tyres, but when you are dressed up for a night out, you don't want to be wrestling with 100kg of  muddy tyre - at least I don't.

No handling problems - I can throw my 7 round any bend and I have never had the car give up first.
Had a great run this afternoon coming back from the office through the Welsh mountains on empty, wet and slippery roads at a fair knock.

Keeping the tyres well inflated can save you a lot of money and less flats on a run flat - probably on a normal tyre also. My fuel consumption on my 330i improved by about 5 mpg when I blew the tyres up a little over spec - from 24 to 29mpg. Must say that my wife likes to spin the back wheels.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Norrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 11:48pm
I find myself agreeing with the above post. I only know on people with the Alpina roadster Z4, never heard any such talk of these issues. I have never had wheel damage with run flats on E60s I had, the only damage I ever had to a wheel was pot hole.

Equally my B7 has a tyre pressure monitor and illuminates on the dash at the smallest loss of pressure. Its a bit strange to say one would never have another BMW based on just owning a Z4, which is more of a sports car than most BMW models, but it's people own money and own choice.
Norman Burnham Alpina E65 B7 Supercharged
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 8:34pm
My 645 had Bridgestone runflats, and I found the ride to be ok, although slightly noisy.  Changed to Dunlop SP Sport MAXX which gave a marginally better ride, but less noisy.  Runflats are not recommended for my current BMW, and I don't think they're made in the sizes I'd need anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickDE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 10:02pm
The Z4 does not get on well with run-flats, I guess due to it's sporty nature revealing tyre issues to the driver very clearly. There are also some Z4 wheels designs that are notorious for cracked rims, which is even more of a problem with the firmer sidewalls of run flats.
Go for non-RFTs, buy a tyre repair kit and pump, and live in hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 1:28am
With 2 previous cars I have had with RFT - E92 325 and E87 123d both on 17 inch Continental and Bridgestone, both changed for 18" and 19" Continental and Goodyear Non RFT tyres I found the ride and grip improved with better confidence and feedback.
Non RFT tyres also gave a more forgiving ride over potholed roads in the UK, with RFTs I found I was actually gritting my teeth after crashing through road surface defects.
 
Last 2 cars Alpina E92 B3 BiTurbo and E92 M3 both have Michelin Non RFT tyres from factory. Just bought a new set of Non RFT Pilot Sport 4s to try.
 
Also related BMW don't advertise the fact that they do sell a spacesaver wheel for a lot of the ranges, but for M cars. However I have made up a perfectly good spacesaver for the E92 M3 from a 7 series F01 spacesaver 18x4.5" wheel fitted with a T135/70R18 tyre.
 
With the above in mind unless I change again and find the ride and feedback has improved for later models I'm sticking with Non RFT for now both for 18" winter and 19" summer set ups, however I'm tempted to try winter RFTs again perhaps due to the convenience factor and they are wider profile 18" so a more forgiving ride.


Edited by JohnW - 18 Feb 2017 at 1:33am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RENT-A-GOAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 10:21pm
I took my e91 of its oem Bridgestone runflats which were utterly woeful. Harsh over the road surface, lack of feel and confidence in grip and tram lined something wicked under braking in the wet (had the car in at BMW for full alignment and adjustments and still the same) and all that before the utterly terrible fuel economy running such heavy boots. Ditched them and put on some Goodyear Eagle F1 Asy3 went with the XL load rating (to give a firmer but softer that then RFT'S sidewalls) and ive not looked back the car is like night and day quieter running, improved fuel economy and the grip and feel is just brilliant especially in the wet.

I have had a slow to medium rate puncture in one of the rears which I pulled over got my BMW compressor and goo out the boot re inflated got home safe and the next day it went in for a replacement tyre as it was a screw through the sidewall but at under £100 a corner its no where near as painful as a RFT replacement and so much better.
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