Belgian Delights Trip 13-16/9/2013

Mike Fishwick wrote: Oh dear - I feel the urge to comment - hope this does not upset the self-appointed tour spokesman!  (All I did was to offer an opinion regarding the parking fee, yet was accused of 'Jumping in with both feet' and making unfounded criticisms . . .)

You need to control your urges and check out your Moderator job spec!
Please read the message from GBridger - it might help.

Tour did not have a Tour Spokesman and your assumption that I am a self appointed Tour Spokesman is false. However I have been asked to collate various members opinions and forward them to the Mag. Also a Z member is doing an article as well. Please try to be patient and be a good chap.

Toodle Pip

Edited by issus - 18 Sep 2013 at 1:22pm

Mr Fishwick,

No further comments on the subject of self appointed "Tour Spokesman" and arbiter on discussion

Regarding your first message ref "ignoring criticisms" I actually said "most"! and by inference not all. Making assumptions based on Niftys message(s) rather than wait for more measured comments from Tour Members might have helped.

That is the essence of my argument with you; after all I did suggest at some point to wait and consider other comments!

It is a pity that you sign off your final message with "you make me feel glad that I could not attend this tour" ..........Most Tour Members were very good company and certainly well behaved including me.
Anyway I apologise for being patronising and for any criticism made. Being a moderator can at times be a thankless task.

Oh,sorry was not good for some. I read with interest as always been tempted to join in with these continental trips. However, as a meticulous planner of travel and intense researcher of all routes and accommodation, food and facilities some of this fills me with dread. I use Trip advisor it is excellent as from actual visitors contributions and not hotel propaganda or so called "expert" reviews.

Car parking in hotels which are inner city or "in town" is not easy in the UK (for comparison) and normally attracts a charge or one finds it is a NCP somewhere near. Therefore, it comes as no surprise to me that there was a charge and 15-20 pounds equivalent per night seems fairly normal and reasonable? For example if one goes to Liverpool, the Crowne Plaza charges 10 pounds per night, Malmasion Hotel, parking is in the NCP next door, SAS Plaza, no parking, so NCP 500 yards away and Atlantic towers, parking in next street in locked compound around 10-15 per night. All Normal, cant see why Europe would be different, its just a revenue stream? I have paid to park in hotels in Rotterdam, Antwerp and Hamburg which I regularly visited on business, don't like it, try parking in the street!

Weather - unpredictable, perhaps try in Summer?
Noise - normally expect it, even in top hotels, too bad, do something about it, like go and tell the people or get hotel management to shut them up?

It all seems pretty fragmented groups of people either doing their own thing or not wanting to interact with others? Some seem to have been at a total loss what to do and go fed up and come back?

Disappointing then for some, not for others, would need to be far better organised to get me to go!

If you want to try again I saw this offer 3 nights for price of 2 www.accorhotels.com/gb/promotion/specials/september2013_europe.shtml

good luck, do more research and don't believe tour operators and travel promoters, they are only interested in your Money!       

steveH wrote: Well that's been interesting read. having been used to the champers tours where Jeff&Cathy H had day to day plans, visits, meeting points, tours etc etc then I appreciate the reality may have been different for those travelling on their own for the first car club tour and those within a group.

Phil Rosenbloom wrote: Couldn't agree more with the above comment.

Ditto.

That all sums it up very well because as Peter C deduced above, this particular trip was no more than a ferry and hotel booking with surprises.

Fair point issus, communications are a two way street.

Mike,

Oh dear - the Offical Tour Spokesman seems to have been offended - yet again!  Perhaps he has shares in Scentic Tours .  . .

Read my post carefully - I did not criticise the tour, but was speaking in general terms of any future tour, and particularly suggesting that a 'Tour Leader' needs to have local knowledge.

I have to say that I agree with Mike. I arranged well over 100 Drive and Dines for the club over an 11 year period. Some were continental holidays, others weekends in the UK and many, the local monthly Z Register events.
It took endless days of preparation eating in the proposed restaurants, driving the routes and planning visits in advance. Most people enjoyed the events. However some didn't ---
The drives were too slow or too fast!
The restaurant was too expensive or not expensive enough
The hotel was too expensive or too cheap or didn't have a pool
The list could be endless.
It was a thankless task and after 11 years I gave up.
In addition I got no help or assistance from the club. I am still involved with arranging events but these are among like minded friends who enjoy similar things. The last one was yesterday with a group of Alpina enthusiasts. We met in Welshpool, had a superb drive, a traditional Sunday lunch followed by a drive round Lake Vyrnwy with several photoshoots. There were 8 cars in total and no one got lost or left behind.
The routes, stops and lunch venue were all preplanned by a various individuals with local knowledge. It was a magic day out enjoyed by all but I am sad to say that most of the participants are ex club members.


Edited by Phil Rosenbloom - 23 Sep 2013 at 2:44pm

That is the very point Issus.
It is impossible to please everyone and that makes the job so difficult. In fact, for the individual organiser it can spoil the event for them.
I remember getting a boll**king from a couple who complained, TO ME, that their 4 poster bed, in a French Chateau, was too high.!!!
Nuff said

At least they had their argument with the hotel management.

I do not doubt MikeF that if we had another JeffH, MikeF or PhilR in the wings then I wholeheartedly agree we as a club could organize down to crossing every t & dotting every i. simple fact is we don't..or should I qualify that by saying no-one has stepped forward yet (Norrie your big chance!!)

This thread is hilarious for all the wrong reasons, I keep coming back to see who Issus disagrees with or wants to make a negative comment about next. I see its only people who dont have an "Oh, the trip was fabulous" type comment to make. Brilliant !

Norrie wrote: Perhaps they should start by meeting at somewhere easy to find for a day out and move forward from there? I mean all this "he said", "she said" nonsense, would not encourage anyone to join in? Would it?

Perhaps, that and a "thanks for your comments, We're sorry you had that experience, they have been taken on board and will be considered while planning subsequent trips" type attitude and not a "you didn't enjoy it but its your fault and you're wrong !" type.

MHunt wrote: I strongly agree that endless claptrap on the forums portrays the club in a bad light and wont encourage new members.   Norrie wrote: Well funny even in a not the "ha ha" type or not, what is pretty certain is than nothing is certain. It sounds like a real shambles, some claiming they know what was going on, other doing their own thing, others lost, others cleared off home early. Then people who are alleged by others not even to be BMWCCGB club members chiming in. Perhaps they should start by meeting at somewhere easy to find for a day out and move forward from there? I mean all this "he said", "she said" nonsense, would not encourage anyone to join in? Would it?