Belgian Delights Trip 13-16/9/2013

Saw this trip in the magazine and thought it looked like fun, so booked it.

There are five cars (Z Series) meeting at the Services on the M20/J11 at 7.45am Friday morning, you're welcome to join in.

Hi Gary,

Hope you all have a good trip!

steveH wrote: Can you all take plenty pf pics and do write up for mag. Our first with scenic Tours so hope all goes well. Have a great time. steveH

Issus - there is nothing to be gained by ignoring Graham's criticisms, and it would be far better to take them on board when planning another such trip.  This is how things are improved, rather than pretending that everything was perfect.  Maybe it was for you, but not for him.

I can sympathise with his comments on noise, having suffered in the same way throughout a Munchen factory tour, when other members' noise, echoing up from the hotel courtyard, kept us awake every night until about 2am.  Some people - including BMWCC members - just do not know how to behave, particularly with a bit of drink inside them.

Although noise is a subjective thing, having to pay an additional 48 Euros for parking is pretty steep, and should really have been included in the up-front cost of the tour, rather than leaving people to find out on arrival.

Mike Fishwick

Nifty's comments are made in poor taste without any consideration for other members in the party. I am surprised that you failed to spot this breach of etiquette (even rude).

Furthermore I find your comments patronising, ill founded and entirely without merit. Constructive criticism is fine - but not when presented in such an unhelpful and downright negative manner. It may help Forum members if you could refrain from making any further proposals or suggestions until at least you have read more representative feedback from Touring Members or at least sight of a collated report.    

Yes, Nifty50 is perfectly entitled to post his experience as are those who went and had a different experience. Those who were NOT THERE should not really make a comment at tis stage.

This is all getting a bit daft and out of hand.

One only has to look at the content of this thread following my original post in July to see the level of enthusiasm that this trip invoked!

For me, a car tour is about two things, driving and companionship.  Scenic Car Tours provided bumper plaques so that the event cars could be identified at the ferry port.  Apart from my car and a red e24 I did not see one other plaque therefore the chances of seeking out other tour members amongst a myriad of BMW's at Dover was the first non event. (I also don't have bumpers on my car but was enthusiastic enough to secure the plaque in order to keep in the spirit of the event)

We met a few people but it seemed most were traveling with friends and happy to keep it that way. On leaving Calais one chap and his wife pulled over and so did we.  We asked him if they were going straight to Leuven or stopping off anywhere en route.  He said they were just waiting for friends and were NOT traveling in convoy. The weather was not great, the ferry had been delayed and we were tired so we headed straight to Leuven.  We found the Hotel quite easily but did not know about the collapsing bollards and went around the town three times before finding out the bollard collapses on approach. In the hundred yard drive up the pedestrian precinct to the hotel we had plenty of abuse from pedestrians saying we should not be driving up there.  I pulled up at the hotel and they directed me to the car park.  I think I was the first one there but did see a Mini that might have got there earlier.

En route to reception I spoke to a chap in a suit getting out of a Z3.  He said he was with the Hotel and had been out to find the driver in order to guide him in. The chap had dropped his wife off at a Cafe somewhere because she had 'lost it' and could take no more.  Another chap phoned for a taxi so he could follow it to the hotel!! The next three arrivals all had similar horrendous tales of woe.  The Hotel were embarrassed because they had sent specific entry instructions and directions to Scenic Car Tours that were obviously not passed on.  

There was no meet and greet arranged for tour members and unless you happened to be with friends, you were on your own.  We were fairly shattered so went for a meal and to bed for a very disturbed night.  The weather on Saturday was dreadful so we went to Brussels on the train and bumped into three couples we had briefly met the day before.  After a brief dissection with them of the previous days fiasco they went on their way and so did we.  My wife enjoyed the many shops but we agreed we could just as easily gone to Brighton for the day and probably with a lot less walking.  Personally I found Brussels unfriendly and typically cosmopolitan (most of the time I thought I was in Saudi Arabia!)

Someone had suggested meeting in the Hotel reception at 7.00pm on Saturday.  We arrived back from Brussels at about 7.15 to find no one there so we went out for a meal and returned for another sleepless night.  At 4.00am we decided to head home after breakfast rather than just spend another couple of days mooching about and killing time.  We had contemplated traveling to Bruges but the thought of driving anywhere was not foremost in our minds.  We talked to a couple of people at breakfast and said we were heading back; they said they had been contemplating the same thing but might go and stay in Bruges that night.  Another couple were planning to go and stay with family in Holland.

We spent an enjoyable few hours in Ypres en route to Calais.

I don't think anybody disputes that the girls are beautiful and the beer is excellent but my wife and I could have done this trip at any time on our own.

As far as a Car Club Tour goes, it was a non event.

No more bickering please, this is my story. You tell your own

Cheers
Graham

PS Many thanks for the support guys!


Edited by Nifty50 - 17 Sep 2013 at 12:06pm

Mike Fishwick wrote: 'Patronising?' I don't think so, Issus, as I merely remarked that Graham's criticisms were worthy of consideration, as they were founded on his experience.

siwilson wrote: Yes, Nifty50 is perfectly entitled to post his experience as are those who went and had a different experience. Those who were NOT THERE should not really make a comment at tis stage. Forum members should not make any judgement until all the feedback is in. i am sure the majority had a good time.

That will be directed at me then. Dont be such a tit, this is an open internet forum which can be and is read by anyone interested. I didn't make any comment about the trip, just Nifty50s right to post his opinions without anyone belittling them or him.

issus wrote: Cambell wrote: siwilson wrote: Yes, Nifty50 is perfectly entitled to post his experience as are those who went and had a different experience. Those who were NOT THERE should not really make a comment at tis stage. Forum members should not make any judgement until all the feedback is in. i am sure the majority had a good time. That will be directed at me then. Dont be such a tit, this is an open internet forum which can be and is read by anyone interested. I didn't make any comment about the trip, just Nifty50s right to post his opinions without anyone belittling them or him. If you care to re-read siwilson comments it would appear that maybe you are missing the point. To me at least siwilson is suggesting that forum members are entitled to make comments. To take it "personally" is somewhat far fetched; siwilson is no doubt aware that you did not make any specific comments on the trip! Addressing a fellow BMW member in a derogatory manner is not on and maybe you should consider apologizing.

Nifty50 wrote: siwilson wrote: I do not agree with earlier negative comments. Traffic around Brussels on the way there was a nightmare, There was some noise in the hotel at night, Parking charge at the total was a nasty surprise. On the subject of re-reading siwilson comments, it is not clear what he does actually disagree with; quite the contrary!

I could go by point by point on how I disagree with you, but I'm done with this now. Suffice to say you had a crap time of it. I am sorry for you. I and another 6 cars I know of had a great time despite the traffic and the weather. We booked together and organised what we would do together. We even made some new friends with another car that decided to tag along.

Nifty50 wrote: siwilson wrote:  but I'm done with this now.  Agreed, you've all done it to death.  A lot of hot air with not one comment that imparts any useful information about the tour.  Out of nearly 40 people on the trip I am the only one to have made any comment at all on this forum. Everything else has just been arrogant criticism of my comments and abuse towards anyone who dared to support my right to state them. There is nothing wrong with ogling women and drinking beer but Steve H wanted to know what it was like as a Tour event as it was the first with SCT.

Well said. As far as I can tell the tour was little more than a ferry and hotel booking with surprises of unexpected costs and noisy neighbours - very annoying. Were there no other organised activities for people to say how splendid they were?

Oh dear - I feel the urge to comment - hope this does not upset the self-appointed tour spokesman!  (All I did was to offer an opinion regarding the parking fee, yet was accused of 'Jumping in with both feet' and making unfounded criticisms . . .)

When the tour was first advertised I hoped to be able to attend - though this was not to be - and living in France I did not need the ferry, so investigated the cost of making the arrangements myself.

Using the Accor Hotels website,  the standard Mercure rate was then £215 for the three nights, plus the ferry, which would normally have cost about £85, so making up the tour price of £300 for two people.  As with all Accor hotels, the 'walk in off the street' price is a lot higher than the website advance booking price - most IBIS hotels are reduced from 72 Euros to 50 Euros, for example.  If our Club's Accor discount code worked, we could discount even these rates - maybe one day.

This is how the tour operator can drastically undercut the apparent room rate, making their profit margin by obtaining  discounts on both the hotel and ferry, but anyone could obtain a similar total price for the trip.