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Z3 2.8 suspension upgrade

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silverZ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 5:44pm
Hi & a late happy new year to you z3 owners !! Could anybody give me some advises regarding a suspension upgrade ?? As my z doesn't seem to handle great or should I say it seems sluggish into corners & very rollie pollie !! Body roll , it's always done since owning the beast and as its passed every single MOT & even commented on how good condition it's in for a 99 V ! So I'm thinking of biting the bullet & upgrading to Koni STR.T with HR springs or Koni sports adjustables with HR springs ! Both sets are mid line cost wise as carnt afford to go mad any ideas about my choices and would it be advisable !!! Silver Z
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DParker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 7:14pm
HI I do not propose that you do this, not for one second! What I did was I got some Apex Springs that lowered the car by 75mm (far to much and I trim the grass in the middle of the road here in Devon) and kept everything else standard as I am trying to learn what does and does not work. I use the car (a 1998 2.8) on track and road. It now corners like it is on rails.

However the camber is all wrong there are apparently three different ride heights for the Z3 including a "Low Rider". I got that information from my Local Pro-Tyre establishment when they were checking out the geometry for me after I changed all the springs, they charged me £30 by memory to check all the geometry that started with alignment, included the camber and also the degree of what I would call crab which shows the relation of the front to rear wheels. I was put onto Pro-Tyre by Rogue Motorsports who were trying to set up a Z3 race series for the 2.8 Z3 and I would recommend Pro-Tyre and their computerised system as strongly as Pro-Tyre were recommended to me. Pro-Tyre do a great job of letting know what you have and how it compares to the Specifications. 

Before I made the change my Black Z3 rolled a lot more than my blue one (Blue one is a 1999) and the black one appeared to be higher off the ground. After the change the Blue one is less planted than the Black one. So I would look into what the "Low Rider" is in terms of Springs and change the springs to suit that as a sensible lower cost single change. The Camber by the way on the three were all different with the biggest rake on the "Low Rider".  I would also try and do things one at a time so that you can see what works for you as I know everyone see's their own car in a different way to anyone else. It also might be worth talking to your local Pro-Tyre about the figures and see what you find out from them that makes sense to you.

A lot of people have seen my car and say that I will go through tyres on the inside like a does of salts and write of the tyres but so far that is not my experience. (I am not saying that it won't, just not so far, and I have only done about 3,000 miles and one Track day on it with this setup) It does need new tyres at the back now but that is because they are still the ones on it from when I brought the car.

I wish to qualify my comments so that you can judge the data I put forward. I am NOT a mechanic, I am not anyone that knows about cars or BMW! I am only just starting to learn about what a BMW Z3 can do on a track and I have a lot to learn. But this information is what I have found and is the start of me learning. In fact one of the things that also happened was I ran it for a while with 47PSI in the tyres and the back end was as skittish as anything and when I dropped the pressure she handled much much better and has lost all that skittish behaviour. I knew that tyre pressure was important but was not actually aware of how it affected the handling, now I am.

I am thinking about maybe bringing the ride hight back up so that it usable on the road as she is far too low to be practicle so would be interested in what you find in terms of springs and suppliers that have them available. I have found that a number of firms say they have them and when you pay they end up refunding your money as they can't supply (this has happened for Apex Springs for me on two Occasions now).

Regards

Duncan

PS By the way there is an Article, I think, In the Wiki that Mike Fishwick or someone did that talks about body stiffness and roll etc I think that you should find it an interesting read. Extreme and not something I would consider but interesting!


Edited by DParker - 11 Jan 2013 at 7:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabrio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 10:12pm
Hi ...can you say what you are trying to achieve with the suspension change in order to offer the best advice....eg road use possible track use etc...cheers
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silverZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2013 at 10:38pm
Hi yes no worries ! No track work just good road holding and as its the wide body modal with the wider wheels it has a scary habitat of stepping out at the back when I go over a grid or manhole or rough road and a long with the body roll in the corners it doesn't seem to drive like roadster !! So yes just to improve road holding & handling
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2013 at 10:31am
My Z3 is a 1998 2.8, and has never been tail-happy or suffered from body roll.  I have owned it from 12000 miles, and it has now covered over 120,000 miles.  I have carried out various susopension modifications, mainly as components have deteriortated - detailed in 'Body Stiffening on a Z3,' and  'Subtley Stiffening a Z3,' which are both in the 'How To' section of this forum - they were published in the magazine a couple of years ago.

After all these years new dampers would probablly not go amiss, as the MoT just looks for leakages - it does not check the damper performance.  A soft damper, or a  'slack' damper, with free travel before damping takes place may well be the cause of your body roll.

My choice was Bilstien Sprintline dampers with Eibach front springs (about 30 mm lower and so a bit more negative camber) and the standard rear springs (as I want to be able to carry a passenger and luggage) with E46 strut mounts, Powerflex wishbone and ARB bushes, and PVC stiffening pieces inside the rear cross member mounting bushes.  I also replaced the rubber spring seating rings and rear damper mounts - a new improved type is now available, as used for all cars.

The Bilstiens have massive damper rods (30 mm diameter) so they also make a large contribution to increasing the rigidity of the front suspension.

The springs which come with the Bilstiens (in the UK) are cheap rubbish, being too short at the back, and apparently made of chocolate, as they settle at an alarming rate.  Daughter used them on her E36 Compact, and after a year the coils began to split along the middle - avoid cheap springs like the plague.

I have a Hamann strut brace, which also makes a slight improvement in initial steering respose, but nowhere near the huge improvement to handling some people claim - I think they find the improvement is in proportion to the amount of polished aluminium!  I will buy a Strong Strut steel strut brace soon, which being straight is a far better design.

I also use a 17 mm rear ARB (the standard is 14 mm) which sharpens the steering a little, and a 340 mm RAID steering wheel, which being smaller than standard also makes the steering a little quicker.

Unless you value fashion over function, avoid excessive lowering, particularly if you later wish to fit Strong-Strut's Butt Strut and Body Brace, which make more difference that all the lowering in the world - and also protects the car floor from speed bumps and sharp ramps!

The ARB bushes deteriorate to allow more 'wind up' movement before the ARB takes effect, and can be obtained fom Powerflex in any size - but make sure you have bushes for a Z3/E36 and not the E30, or they have to be modified a little to fit securely into the clamps.

With the Bilstien/Eibach/Strong Strut/Powerflex/Hamann setup I find that the car has no  body roll, a decent ride, and adequate ground clearance.  Handling is basically neutral, with a hint of initial understeer until slight power is applied.  The back end remains planted on the road to higher levels than I have courage to try!

Rear tyre life is about 5000 miles more due to the Strong Strut braces, as the cross member does not move around, so altering the rear wheel toe-in.

Apart from the springs and dampers this work can be done in bits and pieces, which also allows you to assess the changes each piece makes.

After a bit of experimentation I found that 2.4 bar in all the tyres (Falken FK-452) was about the best - it reduces understeer, improves steering response and 'feel,' and improves grip a little. 

Talking of tyres, I still buy my tyres and have the wheels balanced  at Pro-Tyre of Plymouth, as they are far cheaper than in France, where they cannot balance an 8.5 inch rim!

The Bilstiens have now  seen about 40,000 miles, yet when the car has its Control Technigue (2-yearly French MoT) when the damper performance is checked, the fronts are exactly matched, and the rear vary by 1% - it's worth buying good parts if you intend to keep the car, and after 12 years of ownership I have no intention of selling the Red Zed!


Edited by Mike Fishwick - 12 Jan 2013 at 12:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AShah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2013 at 12:54pm
Along with shocks and springs, check your bushes.
 
Some BMW bushes were so well made that they don't wear as quyickly as other cars. As a result the rubber in them loses its elasticity and although they will pass an MOT, they do not "perform"
 
Some of these bushes, such as trailing arm bushes are very, very cheap and make such a difference you won't believe it! People only seem to notice when they do complete rebuild and change everything and claim that they never knew that their suspension was so worn. They are refering to shocks and springs, but bushes also act as suspension for the unsprung weight of the car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2013 at 2:52pm
The trailing arm bushes are certainly neglected, simply because they are so difficult to change in situ - it's the same with the rear cross member bushes.  Thankfully, the rear suspension bushes are a lot better design that those on the rear end of the front wishbones.
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