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Ghosts of past Triumphs, and future reality |
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dteagles
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Joined: 09 May 2007 Location: UK, Bucks Status: Offline Points: 3476 |
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Topic: Ghosts of past Triumphs, and future realityPosted: 06 Mar 2012 at 9:49am |
From the BMWCCA forumGhosts of past Triumphs, and future realityPosted On Mar. 2, 2012 When BMW bought the Rover Group back in 1994, the deal included such brands as Triumph, Austin, Morris and Riley. BMW sold Rover in 2000, but it kept the rights to the Triumph and Riley brands. ![]() Finally, a use for a TR7. Or the hood, at least. Twelve years later, Autocar says that BMW has applied for a European trademark on the Triumph “wreath” badge, as used on its ill-fated TR7 and underrated TR8 models. The application, filed last October but published in December, covers the use of the badge on autobiles, jewelry, watches, books, leather goods, luggage, cleaning materials, textiles, and Christmas decorations. So much for the story so far—but let's see where Triumph would fit into BMW's future plans. BMW's purchase of Saab would seem to make more sense; there's a new Saab FWD platform waiting in the wings that might suit BMW quite well, and Saab has a dedicated following, rather like Britain's League of Empire Loyalists, warming themselves by the fires of past glories. Triumph owners are a more morose group, especially if they're still stuck with the pathologically unrepairable TR7, or trying to squeeze their aging bodies into cramped TR4s and TR6s. The idea of a lower-priced sports car from a company that could actually make one work is attractive, from an enthusiast's standpoint, but it's hard to justify financially: The cheaper the car, the less unit profit. Besides, doesn't BMW alread have the Z4 for the mid-to-upper end, and the Mini Roadster as a premium entry-level offering? What market would you go for—Mazda Miata? It's been around for twenty years, so you could argue that maybe pent-up demand has been satisfied by the 500,000 or so that have been built. In any case, Mazda sold just 5,674 Miatas in the U.S. last year; that's a depressing figure for what's agreed to be a segment leader. The wretched Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky illustrate what happens when you get it wrong. Gazing into our crystal ball, we'd have to say that a market for a new Triumph would need to be provoked externally, by sexy, affordable competition that would rev up the sports-car market. A new, small Jaguar roadster would fit the bill, something powered by an alloy twin-cam six-cylinder engine and with a six-speed manual transmission. Speaking of a company that has lost its way, they might sell more of those than the miserable 12,276 Jaguar 5 Series and Z4 wannabes sold in total last year in the U.S. And rumors still persist of a Z2—a smaller sort-of-Z4 built on the 1 Series platform. For now, let's just say BMW is keeping its powder dry and its options open.––Paul Duchene |
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Mike Fishwick
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Joined: 04 Aug 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 2753 |
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Posted: 06 Mar 2012 at 11:32am |
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One of the major factors in selling the MINI was that it was built in a new MINI factory - it was not seen as a Mini-like car built in a BMW factory.
The same is true of a new small sports car - if something akin to the Z2 were to be badged as a Triumph, and built in a new Triumph factory, it would be regarded as an honest car, rather than a badge-engineered BMW. It somehow sounds appropriate that Triumph are owned by BMW, as the original Triumph company was founded by a German, Sebastian Bettemann. Another bit of useless information is that the Velocette motorcycle company was also founded by Germans - the Guttmann brothers, who after WW1 when anti-German feeling in Britian was high, anglicised their name of Goodman. Of course, instead of calling a new car a Triumph, they could now call it a SAAB, still built at Trollhatten by trolls! The cheaper it is, the more will be sold - Mazda seem to have made enough to keep going with the MX-5. There is - and always has been - a good market for a small cheap sports car - look at the FIAT X1/9, which went on for a long time, and the Lancia Monte Carlo - if only they had been built by BMW! Even the much-maligned Austin-Healey Sprite/MG Midget was a good car, and popular enough to stay in its prime from 1958 to 1970, before the dead hand of Leyland fell on it for a few more years. Perhaps a good policy would be to build a small SAAB sports car using the BMW Unter Klass FWD platform, or even an X1/9-like transverse mid engined car - a modern sports car with litle obvious connection to BMW. Development costs could be kept low if it were designed by a small gifted team, or even farmed out to a company such as Lotus - costs do not have to run into millions. Incidentally, Top Gear did not seem to know that for many years all the original SAAB concern has manufactured are fighter aircraft, having sold its car division back in the 'seventies, along with the civil aircraft division (to Fairchild) and computer division (to Univac) so the marketing hype about also making fighters is just imagination and image. Edited by Mike Fishwick - 06 Mar 2012 at 3:56pm |
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AndrewE
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Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1200 |
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Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 12:30pm |
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The revival of Saab could be a goer - but they need to re-focus on what made Saab great and it wasn't the 900, 9000 or 9-5. They were decent enough cars but they occupy a segment where BMW, Audi and Mercedes rule the roost. They failed before and they'll fail again.
No, what a new Saab company SHOULD make is a small FWD eco chariot inspired by the old 92 from the fifties and sixties in the same way that Fiat revived the 500. It would need to use an existing platform (the FWD Saab one - or the MINI) and be built to be as light as possible...and the same size as the original 92. Engineer it to be in the lowest tax band (petrol, small ED diesels and electric) and you have a funky town cars that the lefties will flock to in their thousands whilst returning to Saab's roots. There's a dealer network in place and the market needs something new and interesting. The Triumph thing? Not sure. BMW certainly need to look again at their Z4. It has come a long way upmarket from the original cheap and cheerful (and huge selling) Z3 1.9 and it's certainly not a traditional soft top roadster like the original Z4. So yes, they do need a sub 20 grand sports car and maybe Triumph is the name to use. As for production, there is still a lot of space in the midlands to build a factory - such as the site of the old Ryton Peugeot plant. Or Longbridge................ |
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